Curse

TheYellowKid · Nov 21, 2006, 10:01 AM // 10:01

I was considering putting this in suggestions but think its more of a discussion more then anything.

As Anets motto has always been less grind, it seems people perception of grind is getting distorted. Its gotten to the point that (it seems) no one wants to earn anything they think no grind means no effort, specific topics elude me at the moment but im sure the majority of people on the forums can think of a couple of "whine" threads about some sort of grind.

Personally I think there should be more PvE grind of some sort besides trying to earn money for FoW/15k or earning KoaBD title. I dont really have any interest in either of these as such (well not for the time being anyway).

Now this is why i thought it could have gone in the suggestion forum but would prefer to discuss it then get a load of /signed /unsigned posts to be honest.

How about if there was something that served next to no purpose, beyond bragging rights (kinda like what FoW armor is i guess), for example, if there was an area that you could capture a small animal of some sort, then do quests and kill enemies to feed items to it so it would grow and eventually it would grow and you could ride it within a specific area (I had WoW in mind when i was thinking of this, I've never actually played it but someone who does was telling me about mounts and that they take a long time to "complete").

Now this is just an idea to show what i mean about grind, but not specifically what I think it should be. Just something that has no bearing on PvP, cant be used outside of a specific area and serves next to no purpose but gives people something to aim for.

After completing the game I've found bar starting a new player there wasn't much for me to do (maybe because the elite mission isnt here yet). At the mo we have Hero Armors to get, 15K/FoW Armor, Titles and while these are all cool there just seems to be something thats lacking to give me an incentive to even bother with them.

Even though Anets idea is a sound one, I think taking away all grind gives people less to do and removes some replayability unless you get into PvP.

Therlun · Nov 21, 2006, 10:20 AM // 10:20

I find it odd that grind in a single player game would cause that game to suck, but grind combined with the ability to brag about the time you wasted on it is the core of almost all online games...

Technically I wouldnt mind if anet introduced more stuff like fow armour and titles. They ARE terribly boring grind, but you dont have to do them.

I would however like it more if anet would use its time for things that DO matter... like PvP and the endless ammount of suggestions, loopholes and problems that accumulated over the months.

Faowri · Nov 21, 2006, 10:27 AM // 10:27

Rather than Anet give us more things to do in which the aim is to repeat a given action ad nauseum until the goal is reached (grind), I'd rather see them take a step very few or zero MMOs have actually taken; give us other, varied, entertaining ways to do things like earn gold for whatever purpose. I always liked the idea of a 'job' NPC offering varied quests with somewhat random elements you can pick up continuously even post-game.

People who are averse to grind aren't typically wanting everything straight away for nothing - just that doing the same thing over and over again is too much like a day job and not enough like the challenging, entertaining fun a game is meant to be.

ogami_ito · Nov 21, 2006, 10:38 AM // 10:38

What is this grind everyone is talking about? I am at Sunspear General and I have done like maybee .5 hours of killing bugs outside of what I would have spent just moving from point A to point B to complete my quests. FARMING IS A GRIND! And might I say...barely. Not like in WOW, where you can spend a month grinding for some faction or hopeing to get that ultra-rare drop that you will need in order to be effective in PVP. Or going on 6-hour long raids again and again for the 1-in-20 chance of receiving the elite item. Getting Sunspear points is not grinding.

Therlun · Nov 21, 2006, 10:52 AM // 10:52

Nobody mentioned Sunspear points...
Did you even read the first post?

The OP was talking about PvE rewards like FoW armour and titles...

arcanemacabre · Nov 21, 2006, 10:53 AM // 10:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Faowri

People who are averse to grind aren't typically wanting everything straight away for nothing - just that doing the same thing over and over again is too much like a day job and not enough like the challenging, entertaining fun a game is meant to be.

QFT

This is pretty much the main issue people have with grind. Honestly, the existence of grind is not a problem, it's just when the grind is required in order to progress through the game normally, or offers up even a slight advantage. There is plenty of grind in the game that doesn't fall into either of those categories, and I'm completely fine with more.

I believe I read somewhere about Anet possibly adding in "life skills" at some point. Essentially things like cooking, smithing, etc. I'd also love to see more 'minigames', which I thought we were going to see in Nightfall.

Poison Ivy · Nov 21, 2006, 10:56 AM // 10:56

Not this game kiddo, go play WoW.

This game is reserved for those who value teamwork and skill over grind and the time spent in the game.

Thom Bangalter · Nov 21, 2006, 10:58 AM // 10:58

I'm all for grind, to be honest. As long as it does not inhibit me getting my elementalist pvp ready and keeping him that way by allowing me to breeze through the game in about a week and cap all the neccessary elites, you guys in pve-land can go nuts.

BDStyle · Nov 21, 2006, 11:05 AM // 11:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thom Bangalter

I'm all for grind, to be honest. As long as it does not inhibit me getting my elementalist pvp ready and keeping him that way by allowing me to breeze through the game in about a week and cap all the neccessary elites, you guys in pve-land can go nuts.

There is now no reason at all not to just start a pvp char rather than level+equip a pve char.

All my pve chars now don't pvp at all, pvp chars are far superior (customisation wise) and alot quicker to get ready for pvp.

I'm all for grind as long as i don't HAVE to do it.. anything to add longevity to the game past the storyline is all good with me.

zakaria · Nov 21, 2006, 11:19 AM // 11:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Poison Ivy

This game is reserved for those who value teamwork...

You are talking from PvP point of view here, as far as i know finishing game with heros doesn't consider as teamwork.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Poison Ivy

...and the time spent in the game.

= Grind.

Thom Bangalter · Nov 21, 2006, 11:24 AM // 11:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by BDStyle

There is now no reason at all not to just start a pvp char rather than level+equip a pve char.

All my pve chars now don't pvp at all, pvp chars are far superior (customisation wise) and alot quicker to get ready for pvp.

I'm all for grind as long as i don't HAVE to do it.. anything to add longevity to the game past the storyline is all good with me.

I like to keep the same name, plus I like to look sexy. And if you have the cash, they're equal now, not superior.

Avarre · Nov 21, 2006, 12:07 PM // 12:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by zakaria

= Grind.

No wai!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Poison Ivy

This game is reserved for those who value teamwork and skill over grind and the time spent in the game.

Exactly what they said.

Ninna · Nov 21, 2006, 12:18 PM // 12:18

GW has little grind compared to other online RPGs

I like it that way

don't increase the grind

fearian · Nov 21, 2006, 01:37 PM // 13:37

Little grind = GW - grind = other MMOs

want more grind, change your mind

Trakata · Nov 21, 2006, 02:09 PM // 14:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Poison Ivy

This game is reserved for those who value teamwork and skill over grind and the time spent in the game.

Seems to me it's more focused on how many people you can beat and say "QQ lol nublet!!1" to in a set amount of time.

And what about groups in HA, "R9++ group forming no noobs!" That's some skill versus grind there.

Granted, the teamwork aspect is true, I enjoy doing just about anything more if I'm doing it with other people.

If this game was really "reserved" for skill over grind, then PvE wouldn't exist.

WasAGuest · Nov 21, 2006, 02:22 PM // 14:22

"Grind" is generally the word used by the player base to describe something that must be "worked" for; thusly not fun to do. It's also thrown about aimlessly when character levels, points, ranking or "other artifical blocks" are placed before the players in achieving instant gratifcation.

If we look at what the OP is saying, he's asking for more long term goals, more FoW like rewards/gains. Many people would consider this "grind"; however many of us do not. This is core PvE goals - I even have used Avarre's awesome mesmer PvE builds to solo UW and other places. I would not ever call that "grind" as it was fun to do.

However, I would instantly call the GW PvP a massive grind as I do not find it fun. Quests and missions that immulate the GW PvP game play I find terrible and "artificially block" (as in I dread doing them) my progress, simply because they are not fun to play... thusly, I would consider those a "grind". With that said, the AI attempting to act like PvP bots, has created a full time "grind" in all aspects of the game for me.

Why do I mention that? Simply to show, that "Grind" is different for each person.

Long term goals are important to PvEers; it maintains interest for some players at the same time it is "boring and a grind" for others.

Drazilus · Nov 21, 2006, 02:31 PM // 14:31

Honestly there are allready too much games full of grinding. WoW is a great example of those. In Guild Wars your own playing skills usually decide the outcome of the battle. In the grinding game like WoW your level and equipment decide who is the winner of the battle. And those levels and equipment are usually achivied by grinding same high level monsters.

Sure, you can grind in GW too if you want. Just find a boss and farm that green weapon over and over again if it drops unique items. There you have enough of that "grind".

RTSFirebat · Nov 21, 2006, 02:37 PM // 14:37

No, just... no.

I really don't see what could be possibly fun in doing the same task over and over again in order to little little reward.

I'm not talking about Skill Hunting, PvE Story as such.

People who enjoy grinding tend to be people who enjoy Mining a Rock for 10 hours, fishing for hours or spending weeks to raise a level.

Grind does not equal fun.

lyra_song · Nov 21, 2006, 02:40 PM // 14:40

I actually love to "grind".

Hour after hour of killing monsters and leveling up. I LOVED that in RO (when in my mood for it).

Grinding imo, has a satisfaction. I love power leveling my heros in Dragon's Throat. Grab an XP scroll and KILL EVERYTHING. ^^; fun fun.

Thats what grinding is.

If you want a long term goal, go PVP and get a gold trim on your cape.

Grolubao · Nov 21, 2006, 02:49 PM // 14:49

I believe it should have grind, but a kinda of optional grind, much like the actual FOW which you have the option of grinding or not.